Why do people hate civics

Pretty fast for just a FWD econobox I would say. Then on the track car side of things look at Spoon Sports , they have been shredding race tracks everywhere in FWD cars. There is some amazing people in the Honda community with a serious passion for the brand. I feel like it must be said, I have owned a Honda Civic before. It was a Honda Civic Hatchback and it was my first car. Luckily for me I never picked up a fart can but I did install an intake to make it sound better lol.

It was red and extremely faded with a ricer ebay wing I installed. So I do understand the passion people have for these cars and why people love them so much. My car was so reliable and great on gas I have zero complaints overall. I think a Honda Civic is one of the best first car choices you can make. You can learn to drive and tinker on a car for a really low budget then move on to faster cars as you get more experience behind the wheel.

I will do a full write up on my Civic experience in the future. That's my opinion I was actually resistant to getting the RSX type-S my wife picked out in ' It ended up being a really great car.

We had looked at a non-Si 7th gen Civic on a whim. As a converted Honda guy now I suppose I have 2 in my driveway and owned 4 in the last 10 years the issue is the raspy fart-can shit boxes of old that people are clinging to.

Today's Civic is leaps and bounds better than the Civics of old and aren't, to me, a compact economy car. The Fit more fulfills that role. The Civic is far more Accord It's a midsized car with it ranging from being pretty well appointed to downright upscale once you hit touring, though I think it isn't a good value at that trim anymore.

Still, in 10 years, a 10 year old 10th gen may have rattles and a crapped up clear coat but won't be the beater older Civics were at the same age. It's just not the same car So be it. Well the Civic is stereotypically associated with ricers. People don't like ricers Also, people really love to voice their dislikes towards the styling of gen 10 Civic for some reason. Nothing wrong with it, but an observation.

Deleted member. Regularly get compliments when I get out of the car. I get a fair share of people who want to race but I've never interpreted it as them hating my car or wanting to be a jerk- I've always interpreted it as people who like cars wanting to have a bit of fun with someone they can tell likes cars.

Schmullis Senior Member. Hey GT Man, how do you like your new Ktuner tune? I did the on the fly setup with the 3 dual tunes. Tune 1 is 21psi with some aggressive tweaks, tune 2 is 19psi with milder tweaks and tune 3 is a 16 psi "commuter" tune.

I was running the 19psi tune today. I still need to dial things in a bit but Ktuner is outstanding. I grew up in a mostly Honda family My first car was a Prelude that was 13 or 14 years old when I got it as a hand-me-down. Pending on the mods, you can bring a Civic into a performance range that would smoke many cars out there that cost much ,much more.

Figure you purchase a salvage 99 civic for 3. Can your V6 beat me? It would beat any stock Camaro to 60 mph if you could keep it going in a straight line. Weak retort to an excellent parody. Shows the intellectual strength of the responder i. The Miata is a rear wheel drive car with great weight balance that was designed to handle well. The Civic is a cheap point-A to point-B car that was designed to get good gas mileage.

It's like saying a fruit salad can be modified into a hamburger. When you're done it's really still fruit salad. The Mustank may in fact have many failings, but being rear-wheel-drive is not one of them. You had to quote his entire post, to add one word and a sig even longer than your post? Lame, very lame. You've got to be kidding me. The Miata has horsepower! My Integra has And the Integra isn't trying to pass for a sports car at least I don't consider it one I don't own a Civic, but my Honda is pretty much good to vaporize most street machines without trying hard.

Only pansies think a 12 second quarter mile is anything other than something underage children find interesting For most Civics, yes. However, the Civic does have a very capable suspension setup, chassis, and is one of the better handling vehicles within its class. Your rediculous assertion that it is a worse platform for modification than minivans was based on a comparison of engine size. Do not change the argument when you've been caught making ridiculous comparisons.

Jeezus, when did anyone say that a Civic can be modified into a Miata. If you can respect Harley Davidson motorcycle owners, you can respect Civic owners who modify their cars. Remember, personal preference is just that, personal preference.

Yours may be different, but it is not better or worse. IIRC the Porsche had less than 60 hp. Maybe, but Porsche wasn't using "zoom zoom" in their marketing campaigns. Yeah, and a lot of people thing that "Pro" wrestling is a sport. The fact that I'd wager that these two groups largely intersect aside, it proves nothing more than there are a lot of morons out there.

The amount and variation of go-fast parts for Civics, Corollas and Sentras are just mind-boggling, to say the least.

Take for example a Honda Civic Si hatchback; you could very easily swap out the original bhp engine and replace it with a stock engine from the current Japanese-market Honda Integra Type-R rated at bhp for a 70 bhp performance boost right there. And there are engine modification kits intake systems, exhaust systems, mild cams, modified engine computers, etc. Slow they're not. I have owned several small cars myself, and they were just transportation to me.

Just a cheap way to get around and nothing more. Lying slime. Trying to venture an opinion on something you know nothing about again? Like raising sons?

Read much? Since you're obviously not very strong on inference, I'll spell it out for you To the majority, what is the main appeal of the Harley? That's right - Image. The "lifestyle". Which is why HDUSA makes more from the sales of apparel and related branded cruft than the actual motorcycle. Still with me?

By that token, you could safely say that Civic owners do not think of their cars that way. And, as I said, I'm sure they're glad of that - I thinik it is also safe to say that they consider the "image" thing utter bullshit.

Is the Civic desirable to their owners using the dictionary definition? Of course. They're relatively inexpensive to buy, well built, drive and handle well, and respond well to the vast array of mods available for them. Class dismissed. I desired one and I like it, but I recognize it's not the kind of car that makes people look up and say, 'wow, I wish I had one of those.

It doesn't stand out otherwise. Actually arent you taking care of his kids I'm sitting here drawing a total blank. And Yugos. There's no marketing advantage in it. The people who buy Mustangs are people who believe the more cubic inches, the better.

Most of them wish that you could still get sports cars with cid V-8's. I imagine CAFE has something to do with the demise of really huge engines. But mostly they went out of production during the gas crisis of the s, when no one could afford to feed them anymore. Cars that get 10 mpg just aren't acceptable to people anymore, for the most part. What matters in a performance car, at least when we are talking about the engine is responsiveness and rate of acceleration. Larger 6 and 8 cyl engines are more responsive than 4 cyls more power pulses per rev and lighter flywheels per displacement You don't need as much flywheel when you have 3 or 4 power pulses per rev versus only 2.

Larger engines have lower internal stresses and therefor will produce large amounts of power longer than high specific output engines. Ever wonder why larger displacement engines are used in boats? Small high revvers wouldn't hold together long enough. Larger engine typically produce more responsive, more rapid and more predictable acceleration.

One day you will grow up and you will think past Honda's marketing department. Soon to be the mitsu lancer 03 model , I drive a Nissan SE-R Spec V which is still to new but with tq and hp there is no telling what that monster will do. And to all those about the "ricers" nope that doesnt mean me, but with the civic i mentioned earlier with a turbo and exhaust i wouldnt think 2 sec on it not being in the low 13's.

Build up the engine more and little tweeking and you can hit high 12's if done right. Ooh, that's a monster. Yea right. Now please check the header and post only to the group your interested in.

No one in R. I drive an old Volvo station wagon that I usually spank their ass with. Students should be able to explain the major arguments advanced for the necessity of politics and government. To achieve this standard, students should be able to explain why politics is found wherever people gather together, i. That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men. Declaration of Independence explain several major arguments for the necessity of politics and government, e.

Students should be able to evaluate, take, and defend positions on competing ideas regarding the purposes of politics and government and their implications for the individual and society.

To achieve this standard, students should be able to explain competing ideas about the purposes of politics and government, e. John Milton promoting individual security and public order enhancing economic prosperity protecting individual rights promoting the common good providing for a nation's security describe historical and contemporary examples of governments which serve these purposes In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.

James Madison explain how the purposes served by a government affect relationships between the individual and government and between government and society as a whole, e. What are the essential characteristics of limited and unlimited government? Content summary and rationale Limited government provides a basis for protecting individual rights and promoting the common good in contrast to unlimited government which endangers these values.

Limited government is constitutional government. Unlimited governments include authoritarian and totalitarian systems. The rule of law is an essential component of limited government.

The central notion of a rule of law is that society is governed according to widely known and accepted rules followed not only by the governed but also by those in authority. Civil society is that sphere of voluntary individual, social, and economic relationships and organizations that, although limited by law, is not part of governmental institutions.

Civil society provides a domain where individuals are free from unreasonable interference from government. By providing for independent centers of power and influence, civil society is an indispensable means of maintaining limited government.

Political and economic freedoms and limited government are interrelated. Limited government protects both political and economic freedoms which, in turn, provide a means of maintaining and reinforcing limited government. An awareness of the characteristics of limited government provides citizens with a basis for making reasoned judgments about proposals to alter their own government and for evaluating the governments of other nations.

An understanding of the concept of limited government and its essential components helps citizens understand the necessity of maintaining those conditions that prevent a government from exceeding its powers. Content standards No freeman shall be taken, or imprisoned, or outlawed, or exiled, or in any way harmed Magna Carta Limited and unlimited governments.

Students should be able to explain the essential characteristics of limited and unlimited governments. To achieve this standard students should be able to describe the essential characteristics of limited and unlimited governments limited governments have established and respected restraints on their power, e.

Lord Acton identify historical and contemporary examples of limited and unlimited governments and explain their classification, e. Students should be able to evaluate, take, and defend positions on the importance of the rule of law and on the sources, purposes, and functions of law.

To achieve this standard, students should be able to explain the difference between the rule of law and the "rule of men" explain why the rule of law means more than simply having laws explain alternative ideas about the sources of law, e. John Locke explain alternative ideas about the purposes and functions of law such as regulating relationships among people and between people and their government providing order, predictability, security, and established procedures for the management of conflict specifying the allocation of rights and responsibilities and of benefits and burdens providing the ultimate source of authority in a political community regulating social and economic relationships in civil society explain how the rule of law can be used to restrict the actions of private citizens and government officials alike in order to protect the rights of individuals and to promote the common good Civil society and government.

Students should be able to explain and evaluate the argument that civil society is a prerequisite of limited government. To achieve this standard, students should be able to define civil society as the sphere of voluntary personal, social, and economic relationships and organizations that, although limited by law, is not part of government, e.

Students should be able to explain and evaluate competing ideas regarding the relationship between political and economic freedoms. To achieve this standard, students should be able to identify essential political freedoms, e.

Thomas Jefferson explain how political and economic freedoms serve to limit governmental power evaluate the argument that limited government is essential to the protection of political and economic freedoms C. What are the nature and purposes of constitutions? Content Summary and Rationale The term " constitution " has alternative meanings, and constitutions serve differing purposes in different nations.

In some a constitution is merely a description of a form of government. In others, such as the United States and France, a constitution is considered a higher law that establishes and limits government in order to protect individual rights as well as to promote the common good. In nations with unlimited governments, constitutions often have served as a cloak to misrule, disguising the unconstrained behavior of those in power.

In the United States, constitutional government is equated with limited government. Even in a constitutional government, however, the constitution alone cannot guarantee that the limits imposed on government will be respected or that the purposes of government will be served. There are certain social, economic, and political conditions that enable constitutional government to flourish. Articles , , , , , and of the constitution of the German Reich are cancelled until further notice.

This allows certain restrictions to be imposed on personal freedom, on the right to express a free opinion, the freedom of the press, of association and the right to hold meetings, it allows restrictions on the secrecy of the mail, post and telecommunications systems, the ordering of house searches and confiscation of property and restrictions on property rights. Decree of the Reich President To preserve and improve constitutional government, citizens must understand the necessary conditions for its existence.

There must be general agreement about the proper relationship among the people, their constitution, and their government. Finally, not only must the constitution regulate institutions, the people also must cultivate a disposition to behave in ways consistent with its values and principles Content standards Concepts of "constitution. To achieve this standard students should be able to distinguish among the following uses of the term constitution a document or collection of documents a written document augmented over time by custom, legislation, and court decisions a description of a form of government a higher law that limits the powers of government, i.

Students should be able to explain the various purposes served by constitutions. To achieve this standard, students should be able to explain how constitutions set forth the structure of government, give the government power, and establish the relationship between the people and their government explain how constitutions may limit government's power in order to protect individual rights and promote the common good; give historical and contemporary examples Constitutions may embody the core values and principles of a political system and provide a reference point for citizens to use in evaluating the actions of their government.

Students should be able to evaluate, take, and defend positions on what conditions contribute to the establishment and maintenance of constitutional government. To achieve this standard, students should be able to explain the social, economic, and political conditions that may foster constitutional government Constitutions may limit government in order to protect individual rights and promote the common good.

What are alternative ways of organizing constitutional governments? Content Summary and Rationale The way a government is organized is a reflection of its most fundamental purposes.

For that reason, constitutional governments organize their institutions to channel and limit the exercise of political power to serve the purposes for which they have been established.

The most common forms of organization of the institutions of central governments at the national level are systems of shared powers and parliamentary systems. In systems of shared powers , such as the United States, powers are separated among branches. Each branch has primary responsibility for certain functions, but each branch also shares these powers and functions with the others, e.

By comparing alternative means of organizing constitutional governments and the ways they provide for representation, citizens become aware of the advantages and disadvantages of their own system and how it may be improved. In parliamentary systems such as Great Britain, authority is held by a bicameral legislature called Parliament. Parliament consists of the House of Lords and the House of Commons.

The prime minister is chosen by convention from the ranks of the majority party in Commons. The prime minister forms a cabinet and directs the administration of the government. There are several kinds of relationships between the central government of a nation and other units of government within the nation. The most common forms of such relationships, all of which have been or can be found in the United States, are confederal, federal, and unitary systems.

In constitutional governments the basis of representation can vary. Representation may be based on such factors as gender, property, social class, geography, race, or religion. There are also variations in electorial systems. In some systems, electoral districts choose a single member elected by plurality or majority--winner-take-all; in other systems, electoral districts choose multiple members in proportion to the number of votes received--proportional representation.

This understanding also provides a basis for evaluating whether one's own government is diverging from its constitutional design and purposes. This knowledge not only helps citizens to understand their own government, it enables them to grasp the meaning of events in the world, such as the fall of parliamentary governments, the breakup of federations, or the weaknesses of confederations.

Content standards Shared powers and parliamentary systems. Students should be able to describe the major characteristics of systems of shared powers and of parliamentary systems. To achieve this standard, students should be able to describe the major characteristics of systems of shared powers, e.

Students should be able to explain the advantages and disadvantages of federal, confederal, and unitary systems of government. To achieve this standard, students should be able to define confederal, federal, and unitary systems of government confederal system --a system of government in which sovereign states delegate powers to a central government for specific purposes, e.

Alexander Hamilton federal system --a system in which a national government shares powers with state governments, but the national government may act directly on individuals within the states, e. Students should be able to evaluate, take, and defend positions on how well alternative forms of representation serve the purposes of constitutional government. To achieve this standard, students should be able to explain the major arguments for and against representative government as distinguished from direct popular rule describe common bases upon which representation is or has been established, e.

Edmund Burke geographic areas citizenship social class or caste age, sex, or property religion, race, and ethnicity evaluate differing bases of electoral systems, e. What is the American idea of constitutional government?

Content Summary and Rationale The important distinction so well understood in America between a Constitution established by the people and unalterable by the government, and a law established by the government and alterable by the government seems to have been little understood and less observed in any other country.

James Madison Using a written constitution to set forth the values and principles of government and to establish and limit its powers is among the nation's most distinctive accomplishments.

The American system of government relies upon its citizens' holding these constitutional values and principles in common. The Framers of the United States Constitution intended to establish, in the words of James Madison, an "energetic" and effective government, one capable of fulfilling the purposes for which it was created.

The Constitution provides for institutions that facilitate the formation of majorities on various issues at the same time as it limits the powers of those majorities to protect the basic liberties of the people. The Bill of Rights was adopted as an additional means of limiting the powers of the national government and has become central to the American idea of constitutional government.

An understanding of the extent to which Americans have internalized the values and principles of the Constitution will contribute to an appreciation of the enduring influence of the Constitution as it has helped to shape the character of American society. Citizens must understand the fundamental ideas of American constitutional government and their history and contemporary relevance to develop a reasoned commitment to them, as well as to use them as criteria to evaluate their own behavior and the behavior of government officials.

Content standards The American idea of constitutional government. Students should be able to explain the central ideas of American constitutional government and their history. James Madison To achieve this standard, students should be able to describe major historical events that led to the creation of limited government in the United States, e. It is the creature of their own will, and lives only by their will. John Marshall popular sovereignty, i.

Students should be able to explain the extent to which Americans have internalized the values and principles of the Constitution and attempted to make its ideals realities. It was from America that Lord Acton To achieve this standard, students should be able to explain ways in which belief in limited government has influenced American society explain ways in which the Constitution has encouraged Americans to engage in commercial and other productive activities explain how major features of the Constitution, such as federalism and the Bill of Rights, have helped to shape American society describe, giving historical and contemporary examples, how Americans have attempted to make the values and principles of the Constitution a reality B.

What are the distinctive characteristics of American society? Content Summary and Rationale The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities Theodore Roosevelt c.

Americans need to know the distinctive characteristics of their society in order to know who they are--their identity as a people. This understanding of a common identity and common purposes provides a basis on which a diverse American society can work cooperatively to solve common problems and manage conflicts within constitutional boundaries.

Unlike many other nations, the United States never experienced feudalism, accepted an inherited caste system, or recognized a nobility. The existence of a frontier, large-scale and continuing immigration, and the abundance and widespread ownership of property, have fostered the growth of a democratic way of life.

Notable exceptions that have worked against the attainment of social equality are the history of slavery, the treatment of Native Americans, and discrimination against various groups. Voluntarism is another prominent characteristic of American life. The American tradition of voluntarism emerged from the colonists' dependence on one another during the early settlement period, it was enhanced by the influence of a frontier, and encouraged by Americans' religious beliefs.

This propensity for voluntarism has continued to the present day and has given rise to questions that citizens need to address: Is it advantageous for society that functions such as education and social welfare be performed by voluntary associations? By government? Or should both have a role?

Would American society be harmed or enhanced if the propensity to voluntarism declined? Americans form and join associations in great numbers. The broad range of religious, service, and civic groups forms a part of the rich network of associations that characterizes American society. The powerful role of these kinds of groups, as well as interest groups, labor unions, and professional organizations, is an important factor in understanding American political life.

Democracy is still upon its trial. The civic genius of our people is its only bulwark. William James Recognition of the many forms of diversity in American society-- ethnicity, race, religion, class, language, gender, or national origin--embraced in a constitutional system, is a prerequisite to making judgments about the benefits diversity offers and the challenges it poses.

Content standards Distinctive characteristics of American society. Students should be able to explain how the following characteristics tend to distinguish American society from most other societies. To achieve this standard, students should be able to explain important factors that have helped shape American society, such as absence of a nobility or an inherited caste system religious freedom a history of slavery the Judeo-Christian ethic relative geographic isolation abundance of land and widespread ownership of property social, economic, and geographic mobility effects of a frontier large scale immigration diversity of the population individualism work ethic market economy relative social equality universal public education compare the distinctive characteristics of American society with those of other countries Americans of all ages, all stations in life, and all types of disposition are forever forming associations Alexis de Tocqueville The role of voluntarism in American life.

Students should be able to evaluate, take, and defend positions on the importance of voluntarism in American society. To achieve this standard, students should be able to explain factors that have inclined Americans toward voluntarism, e. Students should be able to evaluate, take, and defend positions on the contemporary role of organized groups in American social and political life.

To achieve this standard, students should be able to identify examples of organized groups and discuss their historical and contemporary role in local, state, and national politics, e. Our fate is to become one and yet many. Ralph Ellison Diversity in American society. Students should be able to evaluate, take and defend positions on issues regarding diversity in American life. To achieve this standard, students should be able to identify the many forms of diversity found in American society, e.

What is American political culture? Content Summary and Rationale The principle on which this country was founded and by which it has always been governed is that Americanism is a matter of the mind and heart; Americanism is not, and never was, a matter of race and ancestry.

A good American is one who is loyal to this country and to our creed of liberty and democracy. Franklin Delano Roosevelt In contrast to most other nations, the identity of an American citizen is defined by shared political values and principles rather than by ethnicity, race, religion, class, language, gender, or national origin.

These shared values and principles have helped to promote cohesion in the daily life of Americans and in times of crisis have enabled them to find common ground with those who differ from them. Although political conflicts sometimes have erupted in violence, such as labor disputes, race riots, and draft riots, citizens should understand that political conflict in the United States has usually been less divisive and violent than in many other nations.

This is in part because American political conflict, with the major exception of the Civil War, has generally taken place within a constitutional framework which allows for protest politics and promotes the peaceful resolution of differences. To understand their nation, citizens should appreciate the nature and importance of their political culture, which provides a foundation for the stability of their system, and its capacity to respond to the needs and interests of the people through peaceful change.

Content standards American national identity and political culture. Students should be able to explain the importance of shared political and civic beliefs and values to the maintenance of constitutional democracy in an increasingly diverse American society.

Susan B. Anthony Character of American political conflict. Students should be able to describe the character of American political conflict and explain factors that usually tend to prevent it or lower its intensity. To achieve this standard, students should be able to describe political conflict in the United States both historically and at present, such as conflict about geographic or sectional interests slavery and indentured servitude Here in America we are descended in blood and spirit from revolutionists and rebelsmen and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine.

As their heirs, we may never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion. Dwight D. Eisenhower national origins extending the franchise extending civil rights to all Americans the role of religion in American public life the rights of organized labor the role of government in regulating business engaging in wars explain some of the reasons why political conflict in the United States, with notable exceptions such as the Civil War, nineteenth century labor unrest, the s and s civil rights struggles, and the opposition to the war in Vietnam, has generally been less divisive than in many other nations.

These include a shared respect for the Constitution and its principles the existence of many opportunities to influence government and to participate in it the concept of a loyal opposition willingness to relinquish power when voted out of office acceptance of majority rule tempered by respect for minority rights recourse to the legal system to manage conflicts availability of land and abundance of natural resources a relatively high standard of living opportunities to improve one's economic condition opportunities for free, public education a sense of unity within diversity A thirst for liberty seems to be the ruling passion not only of America but of the present age.

Thomas Hutchinson explain the ways in which universal public education and the existence of a popular culture that crosses class boundaries have tended to reduce the intensity of political conflict by creating common ground among diverse groups D.